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	<title>Comments on: Is Jesus portrayed as &#8220;a type&#8221; like Alexander or Obama?</title>
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	<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/</link>
	<description>Musings on biblical studies, politics, religion, ethics, human nature, tidbits from science</description>
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		<title>By: Rahm Emanuel: Failed President Obama Is Just Like Republican Abe Lincoln &#124; The Penn Ave Post</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-38041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rahm Emanuel: Failed President Obama Is Just Like Republican Abe Lincoln &#124; The Penn Ave Post]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 21:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-38041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] at 5:47 on December 3, 2012 by Jim Hoft    (Vridar) This is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at 5:47 on December 3, 2012 by Jim Hoft    (Vridar) This is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19956</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sylwester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your thoughtful response.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughtful response.</p>
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		<title>By: rey</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Christianity began as a mystical religion in which Peter led his initiates to Mount Hermon’s summit, from where they perceived a mystical vision of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, being sacrificed and resurrected on the Firmament.&quot;

And I suppose this information came to you by divine revelation right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Christianity began as a mystical religion in which Peter led his initiates to Mount Hermon’s summit, from where they perceived a mystical vision of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, being sacrificed and resurrected on the Firmament.&#8221;</p>
<p>And I suppose this information came to you by divine revelation right?</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Godfrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 20:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you were directly questioning the specific arguments for typology your comment would be relevant. I have attempted to point out before that it just does not work to simply propose an alternative scenario without addressing the weakness of the a more accepted view or explaining why your new view is a better alternative. What you are doing is the same as we find those who argue the pyramids were built by aliens or mythical Atlantis or was a real civilization or that healing can be done by manipulating auras are doing. They just imagine a scenario that contains so many additional &quot;ifs and maybes&quot; and say it makes good sense to them. It&#039;s a good story. But it&#039;s not a scholarly argument. 

A scholarly argument must be able to explain clear evidence - not imagination - for each proposition. Your scenario of a treck by Christians to Mount Hermon to have a vision of Jesus is imaginative but is lacking any support in the evidence. Your scenario of all this coming to a stop when James joined the group is more imaginative but again without any evidence. It is all conjecture. 

What you are doing is &quot;multiplying hypotheses upon hypotheses&quot; to create an ever more elaborately imaginative scenario. This is the exact opposite of what we understand is a more justifiable principle known as Occam&#039;s Razor -- keeping it as simple as possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you were directly questioning the specific arguments for typology your comment would be relevant. I have attempted to point out before that it just does not work to simply propose an alternative scenario without addressing the weakness of the a more accepted view or explaining why your new view is a better alternative. What you are doing is the same as we find those who argue the pyramids were built by aliens or mythical Atlantis or was a real civilization or that healing can be done by manipulating auras are doing. They just imagine a scenario that contains so many additional &#8220;ifs and maybes&#8221; and say it makes good sense to them. It&#8217;s a good story. But it&#8217;s not a scholarly argument. </p>
<p>A scholarly argument must be able to explain clear evidence &#8211; not imagination &#8211; for each proposition. Your scenario of a treck by Christians to Mount Hermon to have a vision of Jesus is imaginative but is lacking any support in the evidence. Your scenario of all this coming to a stop when James joined the group is more imaginative but again without any evidence. It is all conjecture. </p>
<p>What you are doing is &#8220;multiplying hypotheses upon hypotheses&#8221; to create an ever more elaborately imaginative scenario. This is the exact opposite of what we understand is a more justifiable principle known as Occam&#8217;s Razor &#8212; keeping it as simple as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sylwester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, I dared to question whether typology is the only explanation for the similarity between healings performed by Elijah and by Jesus. I gave a different explanation, that does not involve typology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I dared to question whether typology is the only explanation for the similarity between healings performed by Elijah and by Jesus. I gave a different explanation, that does not involve typology.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19908</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Godfrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 06:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re not addressing the post. The post is about Typologies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not addressing the post. The post is about Typologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sylwester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 05:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There were various stories about Jesus and his older disciples going up and down the mountain, and then the disciples are the butts of a joke afterward. In one case, they try to send the new converts away on the pretext that there is not enough food, but then Jesus feeds them. 

In the other case, they are confused about what they saw, because they slept through half of the experience and because Jesus seems to deliberately confuse them about Elijah&#039;s role. That is why stories indicate that Jesus did her miraculous healings just like Elijah did them. Jesus just told the disciples that Elijah was John the Baptist, and then Jesus acts like Elijah is Jesus himself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were various stories about Jesus and his older disciples going up and down the mountain, and then the disciples are the butts of a joke afterward. In one case, they try to send the new converts away on the pretext that there is not enough food, but then Jesus feeds them. </p>
<p>In the other case, they are confused about what they saw, because they slept through half of the experience and because Jesus seems to deliberately confuse them about Elijah&#8217;s role. That is why stories indicate that Jesus did her miraculous healings just like Elijah did them. Jesus just told the disciples that Elijah was John the Baptist, and then Jesus acts like Elijah is Jesus himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sylwester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 05:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I repeated myself through the miraculous feeding to set up some new ideas about the Elijah stories. I think that my comment is quite responsive to your post, which addresses the similarities between healings by Elijah and by Jesus. 

I do give a quite different explanation than you do. My explanation is that the healings are similar because they are part of a series of stories about Jesus, Elijah and the disciples -- stories in which the disciples are mocked as old and confused. In fact, Jesus deliberately performs miracles in the same manner as Elijah performed them, in order that the old disciples be confused. 

Elijah appears explicitly in the Transfiguration story and appears implicitly in the healing stories that you point out in your post. Elijah appears also in some arguments among the disciples about whether Jesus perhaps is Elijah. I have attempted to link all this together.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I repeated myself through the miraculous feeding to set up some new ideas about the Elijah stories. I think that my comment is quite responsive to your post, which addresses the similarities between healings by Elijah and by Jesus. </p>
<p>I do give a quite different explanation than you do. My explanation is that the healings are similar because they are part of a series of stories about Jesus, Elijah and the disciples &#8212; stories in which the disciples are mocked as old and confused. In fact, Jesus deliberately performs miracles in the same manner as Elijah performed them, in order that the old disciples be confused. </p>
<p>Elijah appears explicitly in the Transfiguration story and appears implicitly in the healing stories that you point out in your post. Elijah appears also in some arguments among the disciples about whether Jesus perhaps is Elijah. I have attempted to link all this together.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Godfrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, you&#039;re repeating yourself. This does not address the post. I just deleted another comment because it was irrelevant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, you&#8217;re repeating yourself. This does not address the post. I just deleted another comment because it was irrelevant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Sylwester</title>
		<link>http://vridar.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/is-jesus-portrayed-as-a-type-like-alexander-or-obama/#comment-19904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Sylwester]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vridar.wordpress.com/?p=22267#comment-19904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Christianity began as a mystical religion in which Peter led his initiates to Mount Hermon&#039;s summit, from where they perceived a mystical vision of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, being sacrificed and resurrected on the Firmament. Eventually, after James joined the religion&#039;s leadership, these mystical visions were terminated for new converts. 

This termination led to a new development, in which some young converts wrote so-called gospels, which imagined that Jesus Christ descended to the Earth and interacted with human beings there. Many of these gospels subtly mocked the older leadership. Jesus would cleverly confound the leadership&#039;s teachings and rules, especially the rule that prohibited mystical visions for the new converts. 

For example, Jesus led a group of his older disciples and a multitude of new converts to the mountain&#039;s foot. The disciples told the converts to go away, because they could not climb the mountain. Jesus told the converts they could wait at the mountain&#039;s foot. Then Jesus and the disciples climbed to summit, spent a long time there, and then came back down to the foot. Again, the disciples told the converts to go away. Jesus said they could stay. The disciples explained to Jesus that there was enough food only for Jesus and the disciples. But then Jesus took the small quantity of food and magically fed everyone with it. 

As another example, Jesus led Peter and a couple other old disciples up to the mountain&#039;s summit. Moses appears on one side of Jesus, and Elijah appears on the other side, and those three emit a bright light, and they begin a discussion about the imminent death of Jesus in Jerusalem. Old Peter and the other two old disciples fall fast asleep. (Luke 9:28-32)

The same story is retold and then elaborated. Old Peter and the other two disciples wake up just as Moses and Elijah are leaving. Peter asks them to stay a while longer. He promises that he and the other two old disciples will build three sheds on the mountain top, so that Jesus, Moses and Elijah will not get rained on if they stay longer.

The same story is retold and then elaborated. Moses and Elijah decline the old disciples&#039; offer to build sheds on the mountain top. Moses and Elijah disappear. Jesus and the old disciples go down the mountain. Peter asks Jesus about an ancient prophecy that Elijah would come back to Earth before the Messiah arrives. Jesus explains that Elijah already did descend to Earth, that Elijah was John the Baptist, that Peter and all the other old disciples saw Elijah as John the Baptist countless times and did not recognize him. (Matthew 9:9-13)

The same story is retold and then elaborated. Right after Jesus has just convinced the old disciples that Elijah was John the Baptist, Jesus himself does some miraculous cures that were done exactly like Elijah used to do miraculous cures. Peter and the old disciples are confused. Maybe Elijah was not John the Baptist -- maybe Elijah was Jesus. The disciples start to argue with each other -- some say Elijah was John the Baptist, some say Elijah is Jesus. The old disciples are totally confused and squabbling soon after they have climbed up and down the mountain with Jesus himself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christianity began as a mystical religion in which Peter led his initiates to Mount Hermon&#8217;s summit, from where they perceived a mystical vision of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, being sacrificed and resurrected on the Firmament. Eventually, after James joined the religion&#8217;s leadership, these mystical visions were terminated for new converts. </p>
<p>This termination led to a new development, in which some young converts wrote so-called gospels, which imagined that Jesus Christ descended to the Earth and interacted with human beings there. Many of these gospels subtly mocked the older leadership. Jesus would cleverly confound the leadership&#8217;s teachings and rules, especially the rule that prohibited mystical visions for the new converts. </p>
<p>For example, Jesus led a group of his older disciples and a multitude of new converts to the mountain&#8217;s foot. The disciples told the converts to go away, because they could not climb the mountain. Jesus told the converts they could wait at the mountain&#8217;s foot. Then Jesus and the disciples climbed to summit, spent a long time there, and then came back down to the foot. Again, the disciples told the converts to go away. Jesus said they could stay. The disciples explained to Jesus that there was enough food only for Jesus and the disciples. But then Jesus took the small quantity of food and magically fed everyone with it. </p>
<p>As another example, Jesus led Peter and a couple other old disciples up to the mountain&#8217;s summit. Moses appears on one side of Jesus, and Elijah appears on the other side, and those three emit a bright light, and they begin a discussion about the imminent death of Jesus in Jerusalem. Old Peter and the other two old disciples fall fast asleep. (Luke 9:28-32)</p>
<p>The same story is retold and then elaborated. Old Peter and the other two disciples wake up just as Moses and Elijah are leaving. Peter asks them to stay a while longer. He promises that he and the other two old disciples will build three sheds on the mountain top, so that Jesus, Moses and Elijah will not get rained on if they stay longer.</p>
<p>The same story is retold and then elaborated. Moses and Elijah decline the old disciples&#8217; offer to build sheds on the mountain top. Moses and Elijah disappear. Jesus and the old disciples go down the mountain. Peter asks Jesus about an ancient prophecy that Elijah would come back to Earth before the Messiah arrives. Jesus explains that Elijah already did descend to Earth, that Elijah was John the Baptist, that Peter and all the other old disciples saw Elijah as John the Baptist countless times and did not recognize him. (Matthew 9:9-13)</p>
<p>The same story is retold and then elaborated. Right after Jesus has just convinced the old disciples that Elijah was John the Baptist, Jesus himself does some miraculous cures that were done exactly like Elijah used to do miraculous cures. Peter and the old disciples are confused. Maybe Elijah was not John the Baptist &#8212; maybe Elijah was Jesus. The disciples start to argue with each other &#8212; some say Elijah was John the Baptist, some say Elijah is Jesus. The old disciples are totally confused and squabbling soon after they have climbed up and down the mountain with Jesus himself.</p>
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